Forum

Current User: Guest
Please consider registering

Search 
Search Forums:


 




I GOT A TRAFFIC TICKET from Austin PD!!!
Read original blog post

Reply to Post
UserPost

7:00 pm
August 11, 2009


admin

Admin

posts 36

So, Is it legal or illegal to cross a solid white line in the state of Texas?

I have my thoughts on the matter. What do you think/know?


Read original blog post

9:15 pm
August 12, 2009


LC74

Guest

Based on what I know (I'm a traffic engineer), you are absolutely right–it is discouraged, but not forbidden, to cross a solid white line. Here are some statements from the 2006 Texas Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices (TMUTCD) (http://www.txdot.gov/txdot_library/publications/tmutcd.htm):

“Where crossing the lane line markings is discouraged, the lane line markings shall consist of a normal solid white line.” –bottom of page 3B-7

“Where crossing the lane line markings is prohibited, the lane line markings shall consist of two normal solid white lines.” –top of page 3B-12

Note that in TMUTCD language, the word “shall” represents a standard, which is the strongest form of guideline and must be obeyed. The word “should” is weaker, and “may” is even weaker.

For any roads to which the TMUTCD applies, these rules would be correct, and would show that your alleged “violation” was not illegal. And the TMUTCD would apply to any state-maintained road.

Now, here's a caveat: The alleged violation occurred on Lamar Street, which is a city street, not a state-maintained road. The prosecution may claim that the controlling law is the city ordinance, not the Texas Vehicle Code and TMUTCD. Unfortunately, they did not state the statute number on the ticket. (I don't know why they can leave that blank and have the charge stand in court.)

The city ordinance (http://www.amlegal.com/nxt/gateway.dll/Texas/austin/thecodeofthecityofaustintexas?f=templates$fn=default.htm$3.0$vid=amlegal:austin_tx$anc=) adopts teh 1980 edition of the TMUTCD, not the 2006 edition. I don't know what the 1980 edition says about solid white lines. The city ordinance also says that a person may not violate a regulation imposed by a traffic control device (a pavement marking, in your case), whether or not the device's display complies with the 1980 TMUTCD. (The city ordinance is TERRIBLE, in my opinion. First they stick with the 1980 manual, and refuse to stay current with the practice that drivers will see on state-maintained roads. Then they say that they can still cite you for disobeying a traffic control device, even if they failed in their duty to display it properly??)

So, they may claim a couple of things:

1) The 1980 TMUTCD stated that solid white lines could not be crossed. (I don't know if that's true or not, but I doubt it.)

2) The city actually intended to prohibit crossing that line, but just didn't display it properly by making it a double line. (But how could you know that? You can't read their minds!)

Either way, I think they are on weak ground, and you have a good case. The markings at the site really should be in compliance with the newest TMUTCD, especially because it's at an intersection with a state-maintained road.

6:36 pm
August 17, 2009


admin

Admin

posts 36

Hi LC74!

Thanks SO much for your detailed response! You have provided some wonderful information and personal insight as a traffic engineer.

Seems I'm having trouble finding a copy of the 1980 TxMUTCD. On, I can find it; but, TxDOT wants $100+ for a hard copy. Surely, there is an online PDF posted somewhere.

Yea, that one clause in the Austin city code about something being legal, even if it doesn't comply with the MUTCD, is ridiculous! That's just a “Cover Your Ass” policy to make it harder to defend unjust traffic markings, etc.

Thanks again for your input!

Anyone with some other points of view?

3:48 am
December 16, 2009


admin

Admin

posts 36

Just an update on this ticket.

I went to the appearance docket a few weeks back. When I told the prosecutor I wanted to move to dismiss because “crossed solid white line” wasn't against the law, she just changed the complaint to read “unsafe lane change”, on the officer's behalf. (I didn't know they could do that. I DO NOW!) I then requested a jury trial.

So, I was set up for a trial for December 14th, 2009. Well, as is usually the case when dealing with courts, there are delays after delays. There were three cases up for jury trial on the same day, and they were only going to hear the oldest one. So, the other two (including mine) were set for a continuance/reschedule.

Also, I had yet to receive the video I requested through a motion for discovery. They kinda dragged their feet there, so I would've probably opted for a continuance anyway, since I really need to review that video evidence.

Anyway, next jury trial date to follow.

Anyone have any input on “unsafe lane change”? I will have lots of questions for the officer. Like: (referring to me 'cutting off' another car) Were there any skid marks? Did you hear a horn? Did you see the other driver make any [profane] gestures? Why didn't you mention anything to me other than crossing a white line? If it was a 'zero tolerance' weekend (it was), why didn't you cite me for 'unsafe lane change'? Have you ever applied your brakes when driving, to allow another car to merge in front of you, without considering the other driver to be 'unsafe'?– Lots of ways to go with this.

Heck, he was parked almost 300 feet from where I crossed the white line!!

11:33 pm
December 18, 2009


LC74

Guest

You raised some good questions there. Make sure you ask where they (there were two officers, right?) were situated when they observed the alleged violation. If they weren't in a good spot to see it clearly, that can cast doubt on their testimony.

I would also ask what objective criteria they use to determine whether a lane change was “unsafe”. Is it based on whether the other driver had to hit his brakes? If so, were the officers in position to see the brake lights? And can they say with certainty that the other driver wasn't hitting his brakes for reasons other than your lane change?

Also ask if they know the distance between your truck and the other car during the lane change. Specifically ask how many feet there were between the vehicles. They probably won't know.

You might try creating some video footage of your own, to show what it looks like to observe lane change maneuvers at the site where your alleged violation occurred from a distance of 300 feet. That would give you a chance to show the jury what the officers' view was like, and maybe cast some doubt. You might even ask the officers whether they consider lane changes on the video footage to be unsafe, and again press them on how they make that determination.

During your opening and closing arguments, make sure to mention that you weren't actually pulled over or ticketed for making an unsafe lane change. If I were on a jury, I would be troubled if there was a discrepancy between the written charge on the ticket and the stated charge in court.

If the trial date comes and you still haven't gotten the dashcam video, don't ask for a continuance. Ask for a dismissal on the grounds that the police have not complied with your motion of discovery. You are entitled to see and scrutinize evidence against you, and you are entitled to see exculpatory evidence. If the judge denies the dismissal motion, then ask for a continuance.

If only one of the two involved officers shows up, I think that also is sufficient reason to have the case dismissed, unless one of the officers played no role in the traffic stop (but then why are both listed on the ticket?). You are entitled to confront all of your accusers.

Reply to Post


Reply to Topic: I GOT A TRAFFIC TICKET from Austin PD!!!

NOTE: New Posts are subject to administrator approval before being displayed

Guest Name (Required):

Guest EMail (Required):

Guest URL (required)

Math Required!
What is the sum of: 6 + 3        (Required)

Topic Reply:


 

About the Speed Trap Ahead forum

Currently Online:

1 Guest

Maximum Online: 23

Forums:

Groups: 3

Forums: 5

Topics: 34

Posts: 111

Members:

There are 20 members

There are 37 guests

admin has made 36 posts

Top Posters:

Lucky225 – 11

PeterEgan – 8

planet123 – 2

Jo Nathen – 2

CptnRn – 2

Administrator: admin


© Simple:Press Forum – Version 3.0.3 (Build 320)  



If you found this website/post informative or interesting,
won't you consider making a small donation or other contribution?

No Responses to “Forum”

You can subscribe to the RSS feed for comments on this post.

  1. No comments posted yet

Comments are closed.